Following are several exchanges i've been having at a certain forum on tribe.net (i say this openly, as a kind of invite to you to come over and speak your mind, heart, or intuition (etc.). i go by "touchahcity" over there, so look me up, and art yourself the best you can!
My post that perhaps started growing intensities towards me, posted on "nativeamerican (the real deal)" tribe (thread started by someone by the name of "Mr.Funbags") :
Here, i'm responding to jess, a poster who was angry towards "Mr.Funbags'" naive, "well educated" innocent-like post, after i inserted myself in and sought to directly engage "Mr.Funbags" as he spoke about a state-backed vision of his (employing "mountain bike trails, permaculture", development-style activities, and "friendly" Public Relations-like missionary toolings, apparently). i am still in communication with "Mr.F", tho do not know him personally.
Re: further...
Mon, March 12, 2007 - 10:51 AM
jess, i see your analysis (based in race) as muddying things up more than such has to.
For instance, if we see that people in this world are largely deeply domesticated and that the context is that many of us are "well groomed" products of a *chain of command* society, then we gain clarity in how colonization and genocide works, and can better meet, avoid, or ju-jitsu it. And then we avoid getting bogged down in the powerless-feeling hysteria where the same old song of "tit for tat" of human stupidity prevails.
Race is certainly a part of truth (but really an expedience for propaganda purposes); but to *get to the grist* of the mind-set and psychology of how human beings work against each other, you can see that it ain't only a 'white' (or Apple Indian) thang. And you start to see how "the race card" is a game played by statecraft to keep *all* victims of formal values and attack weak and divided, and incapable of adequately responding with our intelligence.
Anyway, i *let* your sharp words graze my heart and i thought about what you said for perhaps too long. i feel your blast and thought of your sharing as if a spear thrown between my virtual feet. i am honored that you, a partial (?) or full (?) indigenous person would expend such energy towards me, even tho i was physically shaking when i attempted my original response to you (thankfully, the great mystery intervened and some button i pushed on the keyboard succeeded in highlighting and erasing the entire post "in one fell swoop"!),,,,
... And such "spiritual nudity" is the way i let myself be around aboriginals, i claim. Perhaps you will one day know this if/when we meet in person.
Your power aided me in my claimed path. And as your vibe soaked in, it got together with my other desires and it got summarily ju-jitsu'd ('cruciaL aRtz' style) back to the heavenish soar i seek. i'll say the rest in the art i upload onto this site, soon. (should be there by the time you read this)
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7 comments:
i am so f-ing offended by this group (1st post response by angel)
i don't show my face in places like this often and it's due to my thin skin. but seriously, touchwhateverthehell, you really need to drop it w/calling ANYONE "apple indian"(s). that is SO OFFENSIVE i can barely wrap my head around it. the brainless hippie who opened this thread at least doesn't go around appropriating language that is most often used in ways that white men can't even comprehend (because it is outside of their cultural lexicon, lest you think this is 'pulling the race card').
this group is called 'the real deal' and is really filled with a bunch of white folks (mis)appropriating and butchering ndns culture like a commodity left and right. and when the indigenous folks speak up in a coherent manner (with the exception of jess) they preach diplomacy. *smh* i am righteously angry and however i choose to express that IS indian. no one gets to tell me how 'a real indian' would act or feel.
and white people: getting called out on your whiteness isn't pulling 'the race card' (and i would urge all of you who like to throw that phrase around to read tim wise's article on the race card www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm ) it's stating the obvious. people of color live with racism and are racialized every day; on the rare occasions that it happens to white folks they are appalled. try this little exercise: go look in a mirror and say to yourself I AM WHITE. you have an ethnicity and a culture and raping and consuming ours is just wrong, no matter how you try to justify it to yourself. no matter how many people tell you it's ok. no matter how you think you can talk the talk. you are a participant in cultural genocide. if you believe any different you are telling yourself pretty lies to soothe the voice in the back of your head that is telling you that you know better. you ARE HURTING REAL PEOPLE. that should be enough for a person of conscience to stop.
which tells me that you (and those like you) are not people of conscience. you are souless conquerers, looking to take what you can and move on when you are bored. i have no pity, no diplomacy and i will not hold my tongue.
my (flougg's) 1st reply to angel, the first time:
Re: i am so f-ing offended by this group
(Note: my longwindedness is probably a result of having ancestors who were bagpipe players, heh)
angel, you're taking what i said way outta context, becuz i never leveled "apple indian' on anyone except in generalization (I was thinking of non-traditional native people like Dickie Wilson, the ex-Pine Ridge b.i.a.-subsidized tyrant). Maybe you *like* feeling offended, i dunno,,, just watch out that your knee doesn't jerk up too high and knock you out!
And, yeah, i will say that you're playing (or being played by?) the race card by reducing people down to ability to comprehend or not ***simply due to their race!*** So, you're offended? Then maybe that's a GOOD thing for you to be,,,,Perhaps it's gOOd for you in your life process-ingz,,,,(((i'm of the skooL that sayz *protect by strategies of enrichment, not restriction*)))
A "radical" example about your saying "all white people" cannot see because of their "cultural lexicon" ***can be turned on its head*** by recalling that there are traditional Laplanders and other traditional europeans (who are "white") who CAN comprehend being indigeneous. Why? Because they have not been completely separated from their traditions like most other DOMESTICATED white folks! So there. *****And this is what i'm trying to get at about analysis that remains stuck in PC-type superficial consciousness!***** (I'm assuming you're quite prone to Politically Correct (PC) thinking due to the reference to zmag; not exactly a "radical" publication (tho I'm glad they publish Chomsky as much as they do). --Just the fact that they don't seem to ever escape race analysis exposes their superficial analysis. ((You wanna go into that? Let's do it!))
So that's a quick example. A less easy to digest example, apparently for you --perhaps because your degree in White Studies ((grin)) comes from too much institutionalized thinking-- is that "white folks"/domesticated folks, like any other human being, CAN evolve their/our thinking! We CAN be radicalized (tho perhaps only by repeated stinging slaps/punches in our face with reality, and then either stumbling upon meaningful alts or being welcomed into de-domesticating communities, i.e. traditional indigenous folks). And we *can* experience and realize growing connections to Mom Earth in ways that our "cultural lexicon" doesn't teach us! Imagine that! (i for one got one type of connection when i was bicycle bush-camping in nw alberta, canada more than 20 years ago and saw a bear face to face; it wasn't the sighting that did it, it was how *something* took over my will and *froze* me. Consciously, i couldn't do anything but look "out of the corner of my eye" while staring straight ahead. And that gave me a paradigm shift that my "cultural lexicon" never even discussed!)
But you seem to be like so many strategically challenged PC proto- fascists who simply cannot allow yourselves to think beyond rigid, hysterified truths (so convenient for the games and tactics of perpetual domesticators, INCLUDING The Leftwing of domestication)--****WHEN you reduce human beings down to being simply the color of their skin!!!****
So BE offended. Maybe it's time you EVOLVED YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS beyond zmag-style superficial liberal analysis ***(not that the "conservative" side of domestication is any better!)***, and listened to, watched, or read someone like John Trudell! You folks wanna talk about "the real deal" so much,,,,or is that just another gimmick for AIM,Inc-style games?
I DO accept that people who look different than white, domesticated folks don't experience the "privileges" that we take for granted ****(tho I tend to question the idea of calling such "privileges", and think critical thinking folks ought to come up with words that *say what we mean* more clearly, so that we dileneate between false/alienated values and things like having clean, running water)****. And I also accept things like that y'all get profiled more heavily, and that y'all may well not be able to even nicely say no to cops who want to, say, search your vehicle. I can accept that; ***but at the same time I see that there's also A MANDATE, ordered upon cops from their 'superiors' (which can are being revoked more and more, as reality is more and more exposed; recall airport profiling of people like Cat Stevens) to treat white, domesticated folks (especially the rich, upper, and middle class-looking variety) with more "lenience". I can accept this. But I see that profiling, "unprofessional" cops, and shit like that is a decision not BASED in race so much as on policies made to keep people alienated, divided, and conquered! (and that goes for whites as well as "redskins"! Because if we were to informally get beyond the war of race (and the wars of so much else), and see each other as ALL tooled people, we would become "threatening"!
But as long as we submit to these constructs that "our leaders" have thought up for us, and as long as we get side-tracked by hierarchizing which group is "Has it Worst" and which group "Doesn't", we will continue to be fooled and tooled! We will continue to be ghetto-ized and incapable of coming together in authentic momentums of mutual liberation!
So, to conclude, i'm GLAD you're pissed. Maybe you (or others drawn to this real deal) will actually think things out after you get tired of foaming at the mouth!
Now, I'm saying all this and I'm sticking around here because I know I ain't got all the answers, either. But I'm not one of those fake Nice people who play all subordinate just becuz you are a different race, or becuz you say i had better. And so, no, i ain't going to follow your orders just becuz you're a claimed or real full or part Native! I ain't going to submit to *any* "authority" just because of what they say I BETTER do (or ELSE). Fuck that bullshit; I stand for a world where you are free to speak your mind/heart and so am i! i listen to my intuitions and consciousness and i stand by such, until someone comes along who can trip me out of that! (And it's happened before; i recall one time when a native guy was leading a sweat and he was drinking Pepsi...and i was all privately pissed and thinking he's going to be full of bullshit...but then during the sweat i was letting loose with my own stuff, yelling out, and suddenly he cut loose with a yell, which, with that alone, i understood was from the HEART. And it was something like i'd never heard or imagined!)
So i'm not claiming to have a monopoly on truth --like you. But i'm a three-spirit cavorts-between (aka natives hav called us "winktes") and i stick to my intutions, after a lifetime of experiences, self-liberation study, and speaking up no matter what.
Anyway, i don't mind being "made an example of" for how to deal with independent thinking that isn't PC enough for perhaps many of you. And at the same time i can admit that i may need some forms of "attitude adjustment" for some of my feelings.
daring to be "radically excellent" with y'all,
in "perfectly imperfect" wayz,,,,
touch-ahcity
angel's second reply:
(my reply below):
your longwindedness is due to your entitlement...
and if we ever found ourselves in the same space you may want to watch out that my knee doesn't jerk up higher yet and knock you out.
i will stop being offended when you stop being offensive. but, let me guess, my offended-ness is my fault, not yours. that's what all that 'longwinded' shit up there says right? when you get down to it? what i actually was saying (i will be even clearer since reading is clearly not your favorite; writing is) was that you can't comprehend what it means to be ndn. indigenous is not all the same. we are ALL indigenous to somewhere, white boy, you just don't get to go around stealing our cultural markers, slang, traditions and on and on, without me pointing my finger at you and loudly saying SHAME!
if you don't have the good sense to get embarrassed, i can't give it to you. hopefully though some other fool will see this and (maybe? hope springs eternal...) think twice before being like you.
what you do doesn't take 'daring' or 'risk' or any of the other things you pat yourself on the back for. you dropping yet more of our stolen cultural goodies all over your posts like you are an 'insider' just makes you another thieving white man. you want to BE different? ACT different.
My second reply to angel:
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me that you'd have to resort to physicality to reach me (with your knee). But i've been decked before, so it's nothing new. i'd still come back and speak my mind (just like i did when i got decked), regardless of the threats. Heavens, you *know* as well as i that such intensity is the stuff of cointelpro up the yin-yang. But i know, i *started* the knee-jerk thingy; y'know i wanted to see what you were made of; if physicality is the best thing you can do,,,
*i don't **want you** to stop being offended*. If that's what you want to be, then that's what you will be. Me, you got it straight, i *am* on the offensive. And i got a vision that i strongly feel haz got to be spoken. No matter what. It's not just about me (and my comrades), either; it's about a vision i have about humanity finding a way to be radically human with each other.
And this is really just the first step of something much more intense i am envisioning and wanting to put into practice. What's it about? It's about ways that can effectively intervene on budding domination of the truly heavy kind.
You can whine and threaten (and maybe fool a few people into finding a way to ban this personage of me) but you're really just showing me how shallow is your depth. Is this the best art you are? The best you can do? Oh well.
Now you're guessing (about whose 'fault' thingz iz), trying to take a short-cut from actually listening? Okay, so you've been fucked with in your life (welcome to the club); but don't try using that game that *you represent all ndnz* truth. It's a truth, but i know you are more than an ndn...or so i guess! You are a human being with enough spirit to say what you think no matter what, here, and that i honor!
Okay, i cannot comprehend what it means to be ndn. Neither can you comprehend what it means to be "white".
And now you are making a scapegoat of me, seeking to justify your physicality (why justify?), ...i guess (heh):::saying that i wanna go around "stealing" your cultural markers, slang, traditions, and on and on. Well, this *stealing* thing you got from *my* descendants, so give that back! (heh) But really, i know what you mean, except that i know that i iz a descendant of indigenous folks too (except from the other side of Mom Earth). And that i can use the slang of any human beings i wanna, just like you. And i wiLL. i don't take orders from others; if AIM, Inc wants to find me, i'm a quite easy target. Perhaps they will have to beat on me for awhile before they get it thru their ideologically-challenged mind-sets that i have a vision that will not silence itself just because a few people have it in them to kick "a white boy's" teeth in. Heavens, i'm more concerned about what the state (and my "fellow" white folks) can/may do to *anyone* who chooses not to play their way.
Aren't you?
And this shame thing? Another concept you get from my descendants. But i ain't going to reach you this way....perhaps we will meet sometime, and perhaps you will knock me out with your knee, and perhaps we will be friends some day too. Real deal friends that HAD to go through such physicality to trust. Yeah, i hear you, "red" boy.
Okay, thankye for your depth. i guess that's the best you have. Perhaps this is good for you. i know it's good for me. The shit is heavy for many (me included), and my way, embarrassing as it may be for future "social" engagements (when hyped-up folks, "red" or "white", come at me with your orders, not having the balls to actually think things through via their own visions for loved living; just touting the same old PC hype war), is the way i'm going to continue on.
The only way one o' you wiLL affect this path iz by radically inspiring. But i know that you, "angel", don't want to do that, and that's okay with me.
Wanting to wear your input about embarrassment for awhile before i accept or don't accept it,
i respect the ndn people radically (and no, you don't get sole judgement of what that means, nor when)
to perfect imperfection!
Stormaldo replied when i posted my first reply to angel on techno:toltec tribe:
I'm responding to this because you specifically asked for feedback. See if you can take this in and mull it over before you justify, defend or disregard. It is my opinion and observation. I'm sure there is judgement mixed up in there. And I won't lie, I am annoyed by your post and your actions. I'm not clean. Most of us aren't.
dude, are you looking for a "there there" or a pat on the back? You go into Native American space as a non-native person and propose an idea that isn't welcome. The proper thing to do at that point is either listen to why it isn't welcome, learn, express gratitude and leave or just leave if you can't do the rest.
It is completely disrespectful and typical of white men (yes I'm generalizing with good reason) to barge in to space that is specifically set aside for someone who is not white and male, take up space and be all entitled and righteous and THEN to take from that space and take what you gather elsewhere into non-native space (being this tribe).
In my opinion, crossposting without permission is rude (even if it's a public tribe). You're obviously not concerned about being rude though. Your perogative.
For one, a warrior has nothing to defend. If you really felt that you were in your integrity, you wouldn't feel the need to take up so much space with your defensiveness. You wouldn't feel the need to bring the argument that you're losing elsewhere so that you can feel like a winner again.
You asked about the application of The Four Agreements. Here are some questions to ask yourself.
Am I taking things personally by being defensive and by needing validation that I'm a good person from others?
Am I making assumptions by assuming that others should think as I think and believe as I believe. Am I assuming that I know what's best for others? Honestly.
And
What is my attachment to being right.
I'm not here to argue. Take it or leave it. Please though, consider how much space white people take up in this world and how much power white people have compared to indigenous folks. Is it really surprising that many native people have so little patience for most white folks?
It won't kill you to shut up and listen.
i reply to Stormaldo and a second poster at techno:toltec tribe:
Stormaldo, INDIGO...thankye for your heart-felt sharing. And Stormaldo, i *did* read the whole thing before writing. i even wrote down the gist of what you spoke (figure i can use those in future comix quotes!).
What i'm seeing in the both of y'all is *assumptions* yourself. But i am seeking to see behind what you are saying, and looking there. I'm thinking that you are saying what you believe would be said to you, or what has been said to you. And that is the limit of your imaginations.
What i'm getting at is *a completely different perception of reality*.
And so i'm not stymying myself/getting bogged down in "normal" conceptions of reality. Thus, domesticated versions of morality, for one, aren't bogging me down. And i'm not allowing *permissions* (from the hierarchy of Those Others, supposedly unlike me/we?), nor am i subordinating to the generalization that says, when "white man" does things, "white man" is over-stepping; UNLESS he is given some formal honors. Or is a "reputable"-type authority. Well, is it not so?
Look, i am escaping those corrals. i am escaping ideology. My life and safety are back in *my* hands! i will speak openly of what i do and who i have been, with any native depth charger who feelz moved to meet me whenever such happens. And such has already happened more than a few times.
And no, this ain't only empty talk. Check out www.angelfire.com/folk/magixn...ggindex.html for a sample.
Okay, methinx a lot of this went over the both o' yor headz. Amiright or what? All i can say is, maybe it's time you stopped reading AIM,Inc and started looking into Autonomous AIM and the history of those who have been getting a lot of shit (up to now) for taking most-daring stands. For instance, Russell Means ( www.russellmeans.com/speech.html ). Now, i know he wallops "white men"; but there is more going on than meets the eye, and that is *precisely* why people like him are STILL under attack. And the tricks those attackers use against Means are very good indicators of the game of "wool being pulled over eyes" that is used against any others who buck The Meta Game (that one which Rationalists and Mental "Health" Advocates are using 100% of their efforts to maintain and perpetuate in our minds).
And, as i can predict, you (knowingly or unknowingly, or a smattering of the three (heh)) use similar arguments (Politically Correct-type hype and obfuscation) to them. And i can imagine that this is *so* because you are still quite uncritical products of your domestication.
Now, as for judgement? My alleged judging others? Was that one of the Four Agreements? Okay, let's say it was in there somewhere. Probably around Impeccable With Your Word. Well, this is not *about* judging. You are the ones using that label on me. You did not ask me; and i *do appreciate* your honesty there! Yet what i am up to is a process-ing (if i could hand-draw right now, you'd see an "eye" in the "g", and a nose). And it iz connect'd with depth being as well.
So, to get to the gist, you are saying what reflects you. And so am i. Only i'm directing such at a people whom have largely not forgotten about the value of such truth speaking/sharing, when the mood moves us.
a-ho, to all my relations! (heh heh)
we are *all* descendants of tribes
and we can jujitsu the domestication planted in our heads
towards mutualities of liberation,
depending on our DARING!
me:
To add a bit...
i *do not* seek to compete/win.
i *do not* make assumptions that my humanity "isn't welcome" (and if it isn't, that's okay too; i will still share!)
i *do not* subordinate myself at the altar of most domesticates who:
Uncritically accept and subordinate to the meta Rules (made by others they don't know) and other demands
i *do* listen to my intuitions about *radically respecting* my fellow human beings.
i *do not* accept value systems which try to force me into their supposedly Perfect mode of morality and other *beliefs* which can never allow input from fellow human beings.
i am *concerned* about reaching people; the word "rude" i see as a value-laden trick being forced into my informal human interactions in order to get me to subordinate myself like those others who feel they must, for some reason which i don't think they've really thought out.
My interest in sharing with fellow human beings here, is not, in my reality, about "being defensive" or otherwise Politically Incorrect. Nor is it about "winning" or "losing" (or other hierarchical competition).
This is goOd stuff to hear, tho, and i am glad you have shared such. Perhaps we will begin permitting ourselves to use/tool this forum in ways which are TRULY meaningful, instead of the usual fare seen so much on forums by (and "for") domesticated human beings.
With radical's radicaL spiRit,
seeking and sharing with fellow domesticates
while RIPPING OUT of the many binds,
i am touching ah-city!
For more info and more pointed thinking about the topics i'm raising --from a radicalized perspective, see the writings of Venomous Butterfly:
http://www.omnipresence.mahost.org/vbp.htm
and
http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/vbutterfly.html
Specifically see:
"EVERYTHING MUST GO! Some Thoughts On Making a Total Critique"
http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/vb/wd4-2go.html
and:
"Do Not Tolerate Me!"
http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/nottolerate.html
NOTE: i do not agree with "venomous butterfly" about the idea of "enemy" or the idea of "attacking" such "enemies" as whole groups of people. i see him using a rhetorical device in using the word "attack" (good to catch angry youths' attentions), and do not agree about the value of using violence/physicality against whole groups (preferring to somehow avoid that trap at least in terms of my own path; my take on things is more along the lines of creative, confrontive nonviolent interception and ju-jitsu, which i call the cruciaL aRtz.
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